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Post by crimsonangel on Aug 12, 2018 22:38:02 GMT -8
Thanks to you for taking the time to read my analisys, chiaki-chan! Always so kind. It's so lovely to be able to discuss the chapters together and share our views over the hidden layers in the story. Indeed this place is really helpful and enjoyable! We've got to be thankful for having it. Poem thread is updated ^^ Oh so the MAL site still has issues, I see! That's a pity. We'll probably need just some extra patience. I'll also be glad to bring my symbolism posts over to the MAL thread when it's fully restored if it's helpful for back-up purposes. Wholeartedly agree on the fact that the relationship between Suo and Taichi is one of the best in the entire manga. I would so enjoy to see their face-off for the title. It seems like they both have this huge desire to meet on the playing field to prove their value and I bet that would be so important to "heal" their relationship with karuta and fix a lot of their issues with self-esteem. Suo is a very good mentor and Taichi is a very strong player. They probably think such things about each other but won't believe it for themselves until karuta itself help them realize that much, looking in a mirror, as I mentioned before.
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Post by meolchi89 on Aug 13, 2018 7:19:03 GMT -8
Hello everyone..
I am new to this chihayafuru world.. watched the anime 1st -> manga -> searching for related taichihaya’s theories and finally i came to this amazing site through reedit XD.. and then after i read all of the comment, i realize that there is another forum before this.. there is MAL and MF, but i cant visit the forum in MF T^T.. is that forum has a problem/down? Sorry for bad english ><
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Post by chiakimagoto on Aug 13, 2018 7:36:00 GMT -8
Manga fox deleted all their forums.......ah what a waste, we had so many pages and pages of discussions, fanfics, art etc there, before things really turned sour, we moved to MAL.....and then that went down, so now this is our back up haven......welcome and don't worry about your English, cause lots of us come from places where English isn't the first language ! Anyway MAL will probably be up one of these days, but it's nice to have this place if anything goes wrong.......
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Post by babibabu on Aug 13, 2018 8:43:12 GMT -8
All of you who analyse the poems so minutely, panel by panel, you guys don’t jnow how grateful I am to you all. If not for you guys I would have only taken the manga at the face value, not even realising so many subtle hidden meanings behind everything. You guys enrich my reading experience of the manga by so much.
I still feel really bad about MF. I used to go back and read the discussions from time to time ( not only for Chihayafuru), it was such a nice way to spend the time..... Atleast we Taichi lovers have not given up, we are so relentless in our support that no matter what happens we always find a way out.
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Post by virane on Aug 13, 2018 16:18:16 GMT -8
Welcome meolchi89 ! Loved your post crimsonangel . I started to pay attention to poems after reading your comments on mal and let me say most of the time the poems and your commentary about them are so telling and so on point, it adds a new layer to the story so thank you for your detailed explanations and making me more aware of the poems. I check out the poems much more now but I’m unable to grasp some stuff as good as you. You’re really knowledgeable about poems’ backgrounds. Thank you again! I agree with you marisa so much. I can understand the logic behind it but I don’t agree with it at all. Mind tricks are parts of any sports so why is karuta any different? Not losing your concentration is a strength of it’s own so why are mind tricks called “trying to win irrespective of the means”? He’s not “fighting head on”? Yes, he’s “resorting to all kinds of tricks” but he’s not cheating or anything and doesn’t using everthing you got when you fight called “fighting head on”? Seeing majority of the karuta players having this mindset baffles me. Like, how did no one see Suo play and thought: “Wow, that’s actually pretty cool.”? I think it’s cool! (Lol) And people are despising him smh. His play style is also hard to pull off. There is a saying about this in my language: “The cat calls the liver it can’t reach dirty.” Which means: People look down on the things they can’t manage. (Self-explanatory but just in case, btw that was my humble attempt at translating something haha) Pretty accurate in this case imo. Also... Everyone is fanboying over Arata. It’s not just Chihaya or even Taichi that sees him as a karuta god, everyone sees him that way. And karuta officals are rooting for him. Taichi: “Thank you guys!” LOL. And how many variation of “Nothing less from Arata-kun.” did we see throughout the series? And I realized that I as a reader accept Arata’s strength without any explanation whatsoever. I know he is strong, I know he practises everyday but why was I never shown that? You’re just gonna say “Well he’s Arata.” and I’m gonna accept that? It’s been nearly a year since their last match and Taichi was practising with Suo for more than half a year but their gap is still pretty much the same? What did Arata do to compensate for that? Came to Tokyo and had practice with the Shiranami members for what, a day? Did he go to other societies like Chihaya and had matches with other people? Did he only had practise with the same people he always does, against the same formations, against the same play styles? And god, Murao just rubs salt to my wound: “I can’t say he had experience playing close games during his practice.” and “Comparing their progress for the last year, it’s Mashima-kun who’s shown rapid growth.” Thank god he had been practising this whole time... which we already knew. Even then was he giving his all for this purpose? He was busy playing team matches while Taichi was playing Suo over and over again. I recently watched ping pong the animation (highly recommend it!) and there was a saying (haha) along the lines: “The stronger your opponent is the higher you fly.” And well... Suo is the strongest I guess I just want to feel more for Arata, which is so not happening right now. (But I loved the bit with “Taichi’s most beautiful feelings” from the later chapters. He was really observant and boy, what a nice rivalry, they’re growing individually and together within it.) I would love to see his preparations for this match too. The transition from the qualifiers to the challenger match was rather fast but overall I wish we saw more from Arata’s side. What more could we see? I don’t know but that’s also a problem, that I don’t know. I think Taichi is much more better written and I love him much more that I just can’t prevent myself from feeling disappointed if he were to lose. My disconnection from Arata doesn’t help at all. I wouldn’t mind Arata winning if it hadn’t mean Taichi losing. I hope I’m wrong but the chances of Arata winning are greater imo. Despite tha fact that Taichi is the one Suo bonded with and despite the fact that Taichi is the one that we saw his efforts it is Arata that dreams to become a Meijin. Yes, just because it’s his dream. Otherwise, what’s his purpose in the story? Whatever the result is Taichi’s character is flexible enough that Suetsugu can keep him in the story but “What about Arata?” He can get a character development out of that, losing to Taichi and seeing the life is not just about Karuta (this applies more to Chihaya actually (losing to Shinobu maybe (wink wink)) and Taichi PROPERLY beating him WITHOUT THE LUCK OF THE DRAW and having the chance to become the best at the thing he was told to give up, finally achieving after all those painful days. But would Suetsugu do it? Would she throw away the chance to show Meijin Arata? I still think a next year is highly probable but what are the odds? No matter what happens we’re in for a ride and just like any other story some of us are going to be disappointed. I always felt like Suetsugu avoided angering the majority of the fandom hence Chihaya’s feelings being it’s own mystery so I really wonder how she will handle this. Taichi wins? Angry fans. Arata wins? Angry fans. Taichihaya becomes canon? Angry fans. Chiarata becomes canon? Angry fans. Open ending? Angry fans for that too. I really hope Suo’s constant “He will lose.” and Taichi getting highly emotinal after the second game “betting your whole youth on it” and his bow to suo coupled with the image of his ideal to accompany Chihaya that can be like a first and last, as a “goodbye” aren’t foreshadowings and my mind being crazy pessimistic, are instead red herrings.
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Post by meolchi89 on Aug 13, 2018 17:35:55 GMT -8
Thank you for the warm welcome ah.. what a waste.. i want to read all of poems theories T^T Through chihayafuru i can learn many things.. Karuta, Japanese's poem, hakama, the feelings of hardworking, etc.. and i must admit that the reason i keep reading the manga is because its romance (its kinda shallow? But i cant help my heart XD).. i want to know the ending of this triangle love.. i hope taichi will win both (Meijin and chihaya) but i know that’s kinda imposible T^T.. i want his happiness to happend and until now i think it’s no other than chihaya T^T.. to become close with her.. be the meijin (when she become the queen) or be her beloved.. virane I agree with you about arata.. i know he is pro but i dont get the feelings.. maybe i used to see his win without many trouble so when he is win.. my response is.. “yeah.. nothing new” XD its different from chihaya although she has hearing ability but i cant predict the outcome. The bowing for Suo, i take it as a gesture of gratitude because when he go outside, he reminiscent of what he has said to harada sensei back then.. about spending his life for karuta but cant beat arata.. but now he can beat him as he remembered the voice of announcer who say “the winner of the 2nd match with 1 card different is mashima taichi-kun” (the scane where he watched his hand).. when he remembered all of that then Suo came.. so i think Taichi is very thankfull to Suo because of his “teaching”, he can reach this stage..
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Post by chiakimagoto on Aug 13, 2018 21:24:49 GMT -8
Virane, Suetsugu San is in the thick of having to chose now..... she probably already did and these are the chapters where only one boy can go further in the karuta side of the story. One is going to be left behind. So I guess there will be angry fans.....I thought when Taichi left after the confession, it would be him. Things have sort of been turned around and that poll only made things even more evident. In the middle of the story she would have had to balance it out between the boys but now we are nearing the last part of the story and she should start making choices. I'm quite optimistic..... Taichi's side of the story is so much more well written.....I just can't imagine she will let go of that. I also always thought that Arata could have had more development on his side....this cost his character the lack of emotional attachment of the readers....
Ping Pong the Animation is really good! The animation is not common, you get pulled in by the story and get used to the animation which is just so fitting in the end.
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Post by iatheia on Aug 13, 2018 22:53:51 GMT -8
Re: Ping Pong, personally, I enjoyed the live action movie more - certain scenes are a bit more poignant, and in the anime the split screen started getting a bit on my nerves half way through. It was a fun visual effect at the very beginning, but much too overused. Quite an interesting take on the animation though.
Another series with a peculiar animation style is the House of Five Leaves, and that is a series I wholly recommend.
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Post by crimsonangel on Aug 13, 2018 23:23:51 GMT -8
Welcome from me too meolchi89! ^_^ Thank you so much babibabu and virane for reading the poems analyses and for your kind words! I'm lucky for getting a chance to share my comments over poetry and its symbolism in the manga with all of you guys here. Suetsugu is indeed really amazing finding all of those insightful connections! It's fun to dig for them, like some kind of treasure hunting hehe xD Every chapter is like a precious work of art ^^
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Post by marisa on Aug 13, 2018 23:37:46 GMT -8
Thanks, virane. I am glad to see what someone else has same vision of characters and plot as my. I, actually, like Arata as character, but I don't hike his attitude to his opponents (remember how he played Nishida and Shinobu in the last High School Karuta Tournament). Moreover, I admit Arata's skills in karuta, but I can't admire it. And there is some reason, why I can't admire his karuta skills and, moreover, why I think Arata's place in karuta word is undeservedly high. Let us see on Arata: how did he learn play karuta? His grandfather, Eternal Meijin, taught him __everything__ (I want to emphasize that) about game. How to take the card, how to respond on each opponent action (actually not so deep, but it's easy to see that Wataya-sensei's attitude to karuta and game process is ingrained in Arata). Now, compare that with Suo's approach to Taichi teaching (even Suo and Taichi both says that they are not teacher and disciple it's easy to see that Taichi learned many things from Suo and not only about karuta). Suo always showed Taichi general line of action, but he never said how __exactly__ Taichi should play. Only exception is that "don't care about winning or losing" attitude. But, generally, Suo never imposed his vision to Taichi and never gave him specific tactics for game. Remember in chapter 184, when Taichi remember what Suo says about disruption of concentration of opponent. "What will you do to achieve that?" says he to Taichi. And other scene in chapter 150, when they play game and Taichi first fall for Suo's feint and after that take a card by his own trick. Even Taichi's feints looks different from Suo's feints. All this shows us that Suo never imposed his own attitude to Taichi. Conversely, Suo always tried to improve Taichi's creativity and versatility in karuta. And if we compare Arata and Taichi we will see what this is Taichi, who know karuta better, who more versatile and who has enough strength to fight Suo. The last point is very important. Although both Arata and Taichi has little chances against Suo, I still think that Taichi has better chances than Arata. Suo definetely knows how to play people, who has great speed and I doubt that Arata is able to surprise Suo. In other hand Taichi, who knows how to play against players with great hearing. Taichi is versatile and has a bunch of trick. Taichi has great stamina. And Taichi knows Suo well. Maybe Taichi's chances is not big at all, but he if he become The Challenger he will be the most troublesome challenger for Suo. In the end I want to apologize for my English and for the bunch of brackets.
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Post by meolchi89 on Aug 14, 2018 5:32:45 GMT -8
Thank you crimsonangel for your welcome and poems analysis.. it give me goosebumps and hope everytime i read it I hope your analysis in this below quote will become true.. (sorry, i just copy & paste your post, dont know how to quote from your post ) Is that a clue from Suetsugu san that taichi will be the next challenger because she draw the image of that taichi's "hope" in big panel with flowers in it..
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Post by virane on Aug 14, 2018 16:39:47 GMT -8
meolchi89 I don’t think think it’s shallow since romance is a great part of this manga. There are a lot of things that can draw you in. And welcome to the greedy league We’re by no means few even when we’re most probably in for a heartbreak. (Or not I hope!) And about the bow scene, I took it as Taichi showing his gratitude to Suo too but then I got this bad feeling: “What if this is his first and last bow to him?” Aaah I really hope not. And maybe I’m being picky but I wish Taichi hadn’t accept his win that fast. Winning with Arata conceding. I wish “betting your youth” hadn’t come to the luck of the draw. chiakimagoto I hope so. You’re right, she had to balance the story between the boys and now it’s time to choose which she probably already did. Thinking about it makes me anxious... She’s probably under a lot of stress too, some of us are going to be disappointed, she can’t please everyone. I hope everything turns out fine in the end, best of luck to her! Ping pong the animation was really good, the art style was really different but it suited the show. My pet peeve was that it was a bit hard to follow the matchs because of the animation but it also made me focus more on the story itself. iatheia I didn’t know there was a live action but I guess it worked well since it’s not too long and the story fits the medium. I agree with too much split screen, I feel it was both an artistic choice and easier to animate. crimsonangel thank you for sharing your treasures with us I wish the manga wasn’t on break and we could read it already. Two more weeks, so much anticipation. I sometimes wish days pass quicker and we have the chapters already but then I reprimand myself: “That means your holiday passing quicker and real life is much more important.” marisa I like Arata, or rather I’m more on the neutral side. He is (Was?) my fifth favorite from the series. But... I’m just not feeling for him, as much as I could. And I too don’t like his attitude to his opponents. I don’t remember his match with Nishida well (Sorry Nikuman) but his attitude to queen was something else. He’s playing against the QUEEN but he’s like: “I got this bro.” ?? And he really got that indeed. That’s what comes with great power I guess, great arrogance I’m not blaming him though, if I had a winning streak against the queen I would be a bit smug too. How did she keep losing to him by the way, not winning a single time? Another mystery of Chihayafuru. (Chihaya’s feelings, her thoughts about Taichi that were stopped on their tracks and what she truely said to Taichi after his confession being some others (Damn you Chi)) I agree about their play styles too, Arata’s is more like a descendant of his grandpa while Taichi’s is more like his own. Karuta officials see Arata that way too. And I agree once more, against Suo Taichi has more chances since he knows his style and he played a lot of times against him, I hope he becomes the challenger. No need to apologize for your english, I’m not a native speaker either. And I use a lot of brackets in my posts as you can see
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Post by crimsonangel on Aug 14, 2018 17:04:30 GMT -8
Thank you so much for reading meolchi89 ^^ That panel with Shinobu vs Chihaya and Suo vs Taichi is indeed stunningly beautiful. I got so excited when I saw it. Who knows if it'll ever turn into reality. Some authors don't like to "spoil" a scene that's yet to come so when they draw it in the form of fantasy, it can be to make up for the fact that we won't get a chance to see it in reality. But with Suetsugu, that's not necessarily the case since she has already shown us a glimpse of Chihaya's future and we know that is bound to happen. So that great scenario has a 50/50 possibility for now to become true, I suppose. On the symbolism side, if those flowers are indeed peonies (not an expert so I might be wrong) their meaning is certainly positive, as you guys have already mentioned. Their significance is associated with prosperity and good fortune (as well as romance/marriage and honor). In addition to that, an old Greek/Roman legend also mentions that peonies were first used by (and named after) Paeon, doctor of the gods, pupil of Aesculapius, the god of medicine. Myth says Paeon used some peony root to heal Pluto, and by doing that he made Aesculapius jealous with his mastery which prompted Aesculapius's anger. The legend ends with a transformation that was life-saving and cathartic: So Paeon was envied by a certain god, Aesculapius (who was surpassed by Paeon) and protected by another deity, Pluto (ruler of the underworld) whose wounds were healed by Paeon, so that Pluto gifted him with immortality as a reward. (More info here: www.ftd.com/blog/share/peony-meaning-and-symbolismen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paean)The greak ethimology of "PAEAN (Paian, Paiêôn or Paiôn)" is associated with "healing" in fact it also became an epiteth for deities with healing powers. Also: There's room for us to hope but of course there is no guarantee yet at this stage that hope will indeed turn into reality ^_^ Fingers crossed. For now, I'm enjoying a lot the positive symbolism that's "blooming" around Taichi and it seems like Arata got some good vibes from him too which I'm happy about. It seems like (doctor apprentice) Taichi was good enough to challenge any gods' power and heal underworld god Pluto/Suo's wounds so he got rewarded with compassion, admire and praise. Regardless of the outcome of this match, I think it would be a really really great accomplishment for Taichi to get the deserved praise for his commitment and heal his own wounds as a reward for his good work. Nonetheless, I genuinely think surpassing a karuta god with hard work is legitimately within his reach now. And he deserves to win the next round for his amazing growth, efforts and for the good things he has done "healing" and helping others in his long journey. Also these qualities of his (observing, analysing, problem-solving, motivating, self-devoted, caring attitude) will help him become a great doctor in the future, I believe ^^ virane it's a pleausure! I can't wait for the next chapter myself So curious about this 3rd upcoming round! Thank you for your precious feedback and your always so nice words.
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Post by marisa on Aug 15, 2018 0:53:53 GMT -8
Oh, thank you crimsonangel for your analysis of poems and symbolism. It's quite sad that there is little hiatus because we might have new chapter raws today. Although this is not three months hiatus (as we all had after 175 chapter) I still impatient a bit. But I have a feeling that third match will be not so long as previous two. This is crucial match but since there are no Chihaya's game and almost no problems between guys it should be shorter than second game. Maybe third game will be finished in the chapter 204. And have someone noticed now boys are sitting? Taichi sitting opposite to window and Suo is outside the window. This is interesting view from Taichi's place: Suo it outside and Arata is between them. P.S.: I still want to see more tricks and feints from Taichi. I thought that it would be more in the second game, but in that game Taichi mostly relied only his speed and hearing.
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Post by iatheia on Aug 15, 2018 1:06:05 GMT -8
marisa, new middle school chapter is out tomorrow, is you like. But, yes, I agree, let's hope that the match is quick. There is only so much that could happen in a single game, no matter how many chapters it takes, and the rest of it just fluff that doesn't contain as much impact.
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